Friday, July 12, 2013

F/S - B/S Debate Rages On...

...in my own head!

Front and Back side of motifs
 using ONLY F/S tatting

Using F/S - B/S, this is the Front
of the same motifs

So, here you have it. A direct comparison, though some are photos and others scans, which does confuse the issue a bit. Honestly, I think my tatting is more even and consistent with this f/s only method, which could prove to be addictive... Frivole, you might just be on to something here! : ))

I would have compared them to each other without photos, in the flesh, so to speak, but I have already sent the first two abroad! So I have to resort to this method.

Afterthought, due to CrazyMom’s comment:
I am curious... why does f/s seem to have a bad rap? Is it more tatfully-correct these days to be tatting f/s-b/s? Is it a phase? Do folks think it is better? More modern? Is it really more aesthetically pleasing? Who says? What do you think?

I am going to try a Jan Stawasz piece tatting only f/s, and see what happens.( IF I can see all the tiny little numbers. His diagrams are so difficult to read...)  I have the pattern printed out and am nervous to begin as I always have trouble with deciding which numbers to use.

Suzanne, if you are out there somewhere in Tat-Land reading this, I have thought of our discussions about this. Wondering what you would say or if you are tatting at all anymore. After all, it was you who introduced me to f/s/-b/s tatting in the first place; seems so long ago.

While tatting the border - which is definitely not brown at all, by the way, but golds and a light beige. The colour is called Ancient Gold, and it lives up to its moniker, and I think ‘burnished’ when I look at it - I am so glad I am tatting straight front side as I would have quit by now if I had done it my regular old way. Seems much easier and you cannot even see the stitches from more than a few inches from the work!


The third corner is fast approaching - I seem to have taken no time at all getting there! Wow! Size 100, someone said it was and it really is very, very fine. Never would I have believed I would be able to use a thread like this.

The two motifs above were done as a little rest, as my eyes do take a beating if I tat for too long with Valdani. My hat’s off to you tatters who use this stuff all the time.

Even as I wrote that last sentence, I was thinking that I am glad ai have no more #20, as it does not appeal to me anymore. But, tatting with this is limited. I think I will be happy for a long while using my stash of mainly #40, with a small amount of 50, 60 and 80.

Oh, yes... As to mistakes - there are a number and I have had to break the thread a few times to correct somthing. I have totally abandoned perfection-stiving because it is laughable to even think about not making a mistake. I will be happy to just be able to complete the border and have it looking half-way decent on the hankie.

There is a point in tatting something like this that I notice a point where I sort of give up the intensity and my tatting gets sloppier as I begin to tat for quantity rather than quality. I suspect this tendency is something I grapple with in life as well as with tatting. Might be linked to impatience and to an inability to not get bored easily... I am not going to dwell on that... too boring!

Whatever shall I do with this hankie anyway???

p.s. Snowy, I am happy to report that I DO sew in the ends! Yes, my needle goes through, as I am trying (your advice) not to be to tight with the stitches, so as a result, I can get that needle through. : ))

26 comments:

  1. Your motifs are absolutely gorgeous!!! :) And your hanky edging is stunning!! :)

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  2. I confess - I only do FS tatting. I'm perfectly capable of doing FS/BS tatting, I just don't. I'm happy with what I do. And I know that the folks I give my tatting to don't care! They're happy to have something pretty - they don't know the difference!

    Your work is lovely

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  3. I'm with Crazy Mom, except to say that I can get myself very confused with trying to keep track of which way I'm supposed to be tatting! If someone wants to look closely enough at my tatting to see which way I've used, more power to them! I tat for my own pleasure, no one else's. I can see the benefit of FS/BS, but I think I'm too old and feeble-minded to bother. ;-)

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    1. Diane, this is exactly what I mean! You are almost apologizing fir tatting f/s only - as if it were a less than desirable form of tatting!

      My question is why that attutude exists and how it came to be.

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  4. There are a couple folks who published comments suggesting that FS/BS tatting is preferred: The shuttle brothers, in their GR8 books--I'm looking at pps. 4-7 of "Tatting the Self Closing Mock Ring for GR-8 Design" and Judi Banashek of the "Impeccable Tatting" fame has p 16 for an "impeccable" front side--she suggests that "contest" work requires this type of tatting. Certainly, the ideas of constant tension and uniform picots are rather new in tatting (as one can see from "samples" tatted in books of earlier eras).

    For tiny sized, solid color thread, I don't see that it matters all that much, BUT for variegated threads in size 20 or bigger, which I love, knowing which side will not have color blips definitely makes for nicer looking work. For solids, I don't think it is a big deal. It is essential in the new size 3 thread in variegated to maintain a front and a back for anything to look even a bit professional.

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    1. I have entered tatting in our No. GA fair fs/bs. I do not think it matters. I still get nice comments. I do tat for enjoyment. Depending on the look I want is the way I will tat. Tension and appealing look I feel is more important than what side the piece is tatted in. Just my two cents.

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  5. My first awareness of 'FS/BS' tatting was in 1994 when I bought Teri Dusenbury's book 'Tatted Hearts' and discovered not only split rings (of which I was terrified for awhile), but also the concept of FS/BS, which may have been around but I had never heard of it, nor did our tatting group. I know Teri is controversial, but she did bring 'back' the 'split ring' which was ignored by tatters when Mary Sue Kuhn published her book about it around 1985. [ It had been mentioned in the 30s (invented by an unknown person) but was never developed.] However Teri also in her book assigned specific terminology for specific knots, such as lark's head or Dora Young Knot. And then there was her definition of Directional Tatting, which meant FS/BS as we call it today. She referred to tatting as it had been done forever as 'Traditional Tatting', and she insisted tatting should have a front and back, as in Directional Tatting (her term). [She was ridiculed for that, too.] Gosh, was I confused!! I had no idea there should be a front and back side to tatting. And then it started showing up on blogs, by some excellent tatters, and I took notice. I only learned to do it (but don't do it all the time) because of the way it shows up in enarged photos, and admit it looks pretty nice to have all the picots having 'bars' at the base. But really, it's kind of an unnecessary thing to do, and I sure would hope the judges at fairs would not get out a magnifying glass and disqualify a tatted piece because it wasn't FS/BS! And after finally earning the flip, to be told not to do it was quite a shock. I don't tell newbie tatters about it! TheyMUST learn to do the flip with confidence!

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  6. I think it has an emphasis now because of the requirements for judging; I have heard that some judges are terribly fussy and examine the piece with magnifiers, looking for the slightest flaw.I have it from the horse's mouth that if you present your piece fs/bs, it gives you an advantage.

    I don't tat that way myself.

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  7. I use fs/bs tatting almost exclusively because I like the way it looks. Tatting done fs only is okay, too, I just prefer the fs/bs. I started doing it a long time ago after reading about it somewhere/in some book long before the internet, back when I didn't know anyone else that tatted. By the time I started seeing it on the 'net and saw the discussions about it I was already in the habit and had no desire to go back. Not many people who don't tat would notice one way or the other. I tat for my own pleasure and if my pleasure can please other people, too, why that is just a bonus. Anyone that takes their tatting to fairs or have them judged in some manner may have other reasons for doing things one way or the other. Most of the judges I've seen at the fairs I've entered items in don't tat, some aren't even sure what it is, so their judging is very subjective and only of the obvious - is it clean? is it visually appealing? in general does it look finished? If you're happy with your tatting then more power to you however you do it! Tatting rules the world!

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  8. When I'm tatting with tiny thread (#80 is the smallest I've gone) I don't bother with f/s-b/s. It's so small that I can hardly see the thread anyway, let alone whether the little "pants legs" have a "belt"! When I'm using larger thread I will do f/s-b/s because I like the way it looks. I do it because it makes me happy and for no other reason. :)

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  9. I love your motifs, as usual :).

    As far as the fs/bs debate goes, I do like the look of fs/bs but I don't think anyone else cares. Like Diane, I can get very confused with some patterns! For ME, I think I just like the challenge. Why I do that to myself is beyond me.

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  10. F/S, B/S.....yep do it...love it. I like the look of all the stitch caps facing the same side and no lines up through the picots. But in really fine stuff or things that won't be sitting flat I really don't bother. However I think it becomes a habit....not a bad one for a change!!
    Agree about the 20 thread - realising why I stopped using it after that last doily. Problem is sometimes you need that extra bit of size to make the object the size you want without adding rounds or modifying patterns...
    Like the way the hanky is turning out. Never doe an edging onto something so waiting to see how you do it before shamelessly copying....LOL XXXX
    Some info (for educational purposes only of course) on your way in the mail.....give it time -we are dealing with Australia Post here!!

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  11. "Tatting Curmudgeon" here. I don't do fs/bs tatting because I don't want anything I tat to have a "back" side.

    But, I don't insist on my "way". It is an individual choice.

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    1. I thought I was the curmudgeon around here! I am glad I am not alone... Bah humbug.

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  12. I still haven't got an answer as to why the f/s only has such a bad rap...

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    1. I suppose it's just because fs/bs is more difficult, you have to keep your wits about you more, so it follows that fs only is seen as an easy option. Even though many of us have definite reasons for choosing it!

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  13. Maybe it has to do with consistency ..... I like all my knots & picots to look the same... There is just something inherently wrong when some ( F-S picots) have bars and some (B-S picots) don't. I agree that it is a personal preference, and maybe I'm just anal about it as it only bothers me when I see it in my own work.... So I F-S/B-S tat exclusively.... I even carry it a step further and plan so that my joins occur in the F-S elements so that I can use LHJ's.

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  14. I'm guessing that variegated threads in really pretty colors that are marred by "blips" could have given many tatters the thought that fs only was a bad thing. I know that my first pieces in solids were fs only but that as soon as I wanted to use the threads that change color throughout, I was searching the internet for how to keep the color blobs from showing. (I'm also a "math" person by training, so I definitely have a predilection for things being done the "right" way...and the idea of a front and a back just seemed right to me after years of cross stitching and crocheting.)

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  15. I have read about fs/bs tatting but have never tried it. I can definitely see how it may make for a more polished piece when working with larger thread, however since I mainly work with size 80 or smaller, I don't think it's worth trying. In my opinion, I kind of like not having a distinct fs/bs. Unlike bobbin lace, where all the ends are tied off in the back with knots, it's kind of nice to have lace where it really doesn't matter how you look at it! Having said that, if I worked with larger thread, I would probably consider at least trying it. I have no idea why f/s only seems to have gotten a bad rap though. In the grand scheme of things I really don't think it's a big deal. All that matters is that you are happy with a piece when you complete it.

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  16. I wish there was an answer to that question too Fox! You do feel like if you're a "proper" (good) tatter, you should be tatting fs/bs. But I want to ENJOY tatting and I find, most of the time, that I enjoy it more when I don't have to keep worrying about what side I'm on. I feel that my tatting "flows" more when I tat the traditional way. And I certainly don't want to feel bad about doing it!

    Yes, sometimes I do use fs/bs for certain pieces but I like to have the choice and to feel good about choosing either. Most of the time though, I don't like to think that my tatting looks better when viewed on one side only.

    The debate rages on... and not just in your head!

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  17. Il est vrai que chez nous Edwige Renaudin nous recommande de travailler comme cela mais dans mes ouvrages j'essais le plus de faire mais si cela me prends trop la tête je ne fais pas endroit envers...Le principal c'est que nous soyons heureuse en frivolant..
    Caresses à Gian Amitiés

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  18. Well no matter what you do with the hankie I am sure it will come out fine! On the other hand, I adore horses and love this hankie of yours... so if you get tired of it I will take it off your hands ;)

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  19. Ok I admit I still haven't looked up FS/BS tatting, but I think I understand what everyone is talking about...it's when you make the join and can see the other color peeking through? If so, yay! I have been doing this (with the needle anyway, with the shuttle I'm just happy to be able to make something at all!) :)

    I'm still impressed with the size 100 tatting, perfect or not! Also, that handkerchief is so awesome! I love the medieval theme and think the color of the thread goes perfectly with it. Good choice all around! :)

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  20. Beautiful works congreatulation Marie-Claire

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  21. I tat FS/BS nearly exclusively. At the time many years ago when I discovered it, likely in the late 90's on the internet, I was contemplating entering my work in fairs and judged exhibitions. We don't have a county fair, and I never located a judged exhibition in my area, so I never did enter anything, but FS/BS is ingrained in muscle memory. If I am doing a chain I automatically start with the 2nd half. I have to watch carefully as some patterns, you have chains that are done on the front side, and the rings from the back, so I have to adjust my thinking.
    I tried an item a few years back not caring about FS/BS and got so frustrated and mixed up I want back to just doing FS/BS.
    I don't consider FS tatting wrong, just a different way to do things.

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